"Why do Gaza and Reviver get so much press on this website? Don't get me wrong they are good guys really, and i like the people in these bands. But are they a part of the "grudge city" scene? Not at all. Do they give a fuck about the "scene"? No they do not."Here's my view: Hardcore shouldn't be about drawing lines. We're all into this because it's an alternative to the bullshit that we're fed in the mainstream. I think Gaza and Reviver are valid as fuck. They're humble bands that function on d.i.y. ethics and create honest, thoughtful, hardcore music. Same goes for bands from Despite Despair to All Systems Fail. These are hardcore bands and if anything, we should be working to include these bands more in the traditional Salt Lake 'hardcore scene.'
But this is my view. It's no more valid than Brook's or anyone else's. I'm miles away for the year and don't know how things are right now.
If you're a part of the hardcore scene or you've always felt like your on the outside... how do you feel about this? What do you think? Comment.
You missed my point. I dont think these bands are less HC than me and the rest of us. But they are NOT Grudge City Hardcore. And its not that i dont think they should get a mention here and there, but it seems like every other day I'm reading about Gaza doing this and Gaza doing that. I would be willing to bet money that they dont even know or care this web site exists.
ReplyDeleteAnd I actually wish to retract my statement about reviver. Matt was the one that put on the Soul Control show the other night and they do lots of shows for smaller bands. So I should not have said Reviver. Sorry.
I understand that Trevor, Dan and Sias are the ones that write for this site so they can say "its our site we control the content" but when you put the words Grudge City on it... it becomes all of ours and is a reflection on all of us. So when you post things about Vans shoes, Sweaters and stupid celebrity gossip that personally offends me as a contributor to the Grudge City scene.
If you guys wanna have a site of shit you think is cool call it "dan sias and trevors list of awesome shit" but dont prostitute out a name that used to mean something.
If you check the archives, 99% of our 2310 posts pertain to hardcore and a good majority to Salt Lake hardcore bands.
ReplyDeleteWe want everyone to contribute to this. We've always asked people to contribute.
Ya, i agree their is tons of gaza posts. but they deserve it. they work hard. and i can see where brook is coming from. but then again i do check on this site to see whats goin on within grudge city and what activities is happening and shit. such as grudge city shows and whatnot and if theirs some stupid celebrity shit i'll read it. most of the time its funny. i think the name matches up,but then again i dont know what the name, grudgecity means to brook, to me its the scene i grew up in and followed since like 8th grade and others try to copy but fail
ReplyDeleteif i have anymore opinions ill come back. im at work right now :(
I thought "Grudge City" was just a term for Salt Lake. Since this clearly is NOT the case, I am gonna agree with Brook. Maybe there needs to be a different blog called, fuck, I don't know, "Salt Lake Hardcore", and that will be fully inclusive. If the term "Grudge City" has personal weight for some individuals, I can see how they might get upset with certain things being associated with it.
ReplyDeletei see your point, and i completely agree i doubt gaza cares about the website or our shows at all. i would love to see more on the site about hardcore and hardcore kids in salt lake. the problem is outside of the little we are trying to do with the website and the few shows we ourselves have time to do, aswell as the shows matt and the reviver kids do, there isnt much going on with salt lake city hardcore. there are few new bands, no one else is trying to get shows together. weve boycotted all but 2 of the available venues out there right now and they are very hard to book. it comes down to who ever is doing shit in this city will get some hype on this site because if the posts stop people stop coming by and it becomes even more irrelevant as a tool to getting kids to real shows. if we waited to post on here for news pertaining to only kids that we consider salt lake city hardcore kids we wouldnt have much to write about.
ReplyDeletealso, we started this site to draw kids from all the sub genres of hardcore to salt lake hardcore shows. a lot of kids out there dont know anything outside of bands like gaza or local bands that share their genre and scene.
it comes down to this, if you want more salt lake city hardcore news, salt lake hardcore needs to step it up and start making news. and by salt lake hardcore i mean all of us, you, me, and the next guy. its really easy to stand back and complain that there isnt enough going on, its much harder to get out there and keep things moving forward. and im not attacking or saying that you havent done your part brook. but i am saying that none of us have a right to complain if we arent unwilling to make an effort to make things happen. i think it very ironic that every time the people invovled with the GCA try to do something for salt lake hardcore there are a dozen of our close friends standing in the back talking shit or making jokes at our expense. yet when we get busy and step back we start hearing complaints about no one doing anything anymore.
were trying to get more kids involved, things like the term
'grudge city' have done nothing but turn hardcore shows into an elitist gathering. the reason the kollective and citigroup do so well is cause there are hundreds of kids out there who dont go to our shows who consider themselves hardcore kids cause they are too young to know better and there is no one out there setting them straight. as far as us using grudge city in the title, i wish dan and trevor hadnt for that very reason. when i started getting involved i felt that our goal should be to devilify the term grudge city because no matter what anyone says any show we do or support is going to be associated with grudge city. as soon as grudge city started being used to define the whole scene and not a group of friends it was bastardized and no longer meant anything.
I have been going to hardcore shows in Salt Lake City for over a decade. I was introduced to this blog 10 months or so ago. I don't quite understand the Grudge City dynamic and everything it does and does not embody. I understand there is much more to it than what I know. So I don't feel I have the grounds to comment on the etymology of the title.
ReplyDeleteBut I can say that I really do appreciate this blog and the work that goes into it. I have been turned on to some great bands, shows, events and otherwise- that I probably would have overlooked.
Ok, Can of worms officially opened. You asked for this, so here we go.
ReplyDeleteHardcore in Salt Lake City.
Since I have been back in town, from an 8 month stint in Vegas, I have noticed a few things about the scene that are a bit different then when I left. Maybe we were headed to this slump before, and I just didn't notice at the time.
The scene here is made up of branches, like always, but the dividing lines to me seem to hit a little more close to home.
This Site: Started by Dan and Trevor, and honestly seemed like a good idea at first, a way to post some news, inform people of shows and new bands that they may not hear of otherwise. Sias jumped in to help out, and puts forward some equally beneficial content of the same vain, and some funny things and nerdy stuff on top of it all. Still all good. Then slowly but surely the marketing sense of a few people kicked in, and t-shirts came about... Grudge City, being a moniker for a sect of the HC scene here for quite some time, in my opinion belongs to some people. Not in the way that I own the sweater I am wearing, or my wrist watch, but in the way that something is yours by right and attainment. Putting this on a T-shirt to sell to a bunch of people who have very little idea what any of it means to those that it belongs to, is a piss poor idea. I also have to say that I would like some sort of factual evidence that there are no ties to any of the venues promoted on this site and the kollective... something that is in my opinion still up in the air. I realize alleged "hardcore" bands like Caliban, Throwdown and Sleeping Giant couldn't really give a fuck less who promotes them as long as they are making money, but to me it is a bit silly to use the name Grudge City in association with any of these shows. To finalize all I have to say about this website, I think it is fine, I check it regularly, and have kept my shit talk to a minimum considering that three of my good friends are behind it, and I have never offered up any better content than the few things I have chosen to speak out negatively about.
On to what matters most, the kids. From what I have seen since I have returned, there is a lot of bitterness and backbiting going on amongst a lot of people associated with the scene. It would appear that there is a lot of inner band turmoil, and people failing to be less than up front with others whom they have been involved with for years and even called 'friends.' I overhear talk after talk concerning misappropriated personal use of funds from shirt sales on this site, from the Starkweather show, and the looming question "what happened to all the big plans talked about last fall before the starkweather show?" once again I feel like I am on the outside looking in, but I feel like it might be appropriate to address some of these topics face to face rather than on street corners where everyone EXCEPT said party is present.
As far as shows, booking and promotions go on an actual hardcore level, it seems like there are a few people who actually care, I have to second what Brook said about Matt being downs to do the show the other day, I appreciate that kid and always will, even though I less than respect some of the other members of Reviver. Trevor, Sious and Clint seem to still enjoy doing it from time to time, while juggling being in bands, working full time and being overall busy people. I guess there is that, a positive note.
Most of the bands that play seem to have inner turmoil and hurt feelings a lot of the time over different things, something that surprises me a lot considering the ages of a lot of the members.
I guess there you go Dan, there is what I can see.
my problem with every word that has been said is this, we are all friends, we hang out. if someone has something to say they should talk to their friend about it instead of making backhanded comments over the internet left open to interpretation. its funny that trevor, dan, and i are 3 of the most passive of our friends yet no one can come to us and have rational discourse about their problems with what we are doing. from the beginning our goal was to keep hardcore going in slc because we have been in a slump for the last few years. and ill 100% admit that the shirts were my idea, for the sole purpose of selling them to kids to try to take away all the negative condentations to 'grudge city' shows. in retrospect it didnt work at all and the 2 or 3 people who were around then that still come around now that are outraged by it i extend an apology for no longer taking something serious that everyone had stopped taking serious years ago. and i know someones going to come at me with the arguement 'well if they arent hardcore kids why do we want them at shows' which is always brought up. no one starts going to shows and immediately gets it and shows in the 90's were more fun because there were more kids at every show who actually cared. we all want to push keep hardcore with the local kids, thats the goal. but if we cant get kids to showsand we cant maintain a venue, then the big promoters win. and lay off dan, he lives on the other side of the world and still maintains this site, he doesnt know who half the shows belong to because it takes serious digging to uncover.
ReplyDeleteand also, we have sold 30 shirts on the site, all the the funds we have accrued are accounted for and youre more than willing to view the books if youd like. those 30 shirt sales were held for the starkweather show to pay for any loses, when the show did better than we thought we voted to pay me back for the 600 i spent on them out of pocket. any shirt that is sold would go into the account to go towards shows and anything else that helps salt lake hardcore. we do not push selling shirts because we are not trying to make money or take away from bands merch sales. they sit in a box in my house as an ill concieved idea. and again, any of this could have been said, between friends, at any time with a simple question.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWe're still at a miss here.
ReplyDeleteI think everybody is missing my original point. Bands like Gaza DO NOT care about OUR scene. When they played that braveyoung shown they showed up when it was their turn to play and as soon as they were done they packed up and left. They didnt watch any of the other locals and they didnt stay for braveyoung. Im supprised they didnt ask for money. So i ask why they get press here. I never said they had bad intentions I never said they were shitty doods. Im just wondering why they get so much press here?
And Ill just say this originally Grudge City WAS NOT a general term for SLC. But that time has come and gone and I dont really even care to get back there.
But does it bother me when i see kids with Grudge City tattoos that dont understand that... Yes it does.
"my problem with every word that has been said is this, we are all friends, we hang out. if someone has something to say they should talk to their friend about it instead of making backhanded comments over the internet left open to interpretation."
ReplyDeleteYES... exactly! But I wanna know why it seems like none of this bothers anybody until Im the one that brings it up. Then everybody has an opinion. I know im not the only one thinking into this stuff.
And like i said to dan today, if i see it I will say something about it. I dont see dan, and me and you (sias) dont really talk.. about anything real anyways. But you know my opinions and you should know im not one to hold my tongue on certain issues.
Fuck yeah. This is good. Now everyone take a deep breath. Exhale.
ReplyDeleteThis is hardcore we're talking about! This is about hanging out with your friends, having fun and being honest. It's about giving a fuck about the world and what's going on around you. If people talked like this more often, Salt Lake would have a hell of a lot more going on! (And we already have more than most cities so appreciate that.)
So enjoy the site or don't. I'm not sweating it. We're not making money. We're not looking for scene points. We're doing our best to support honest bands and people who are doing shows (let us know if something we post is bullshit, it's good to be honest and we need your help).
The brass tacks of it is that we'll be posting cool shit about Salt Lake hardcore for a long time. That is what we're about. This is important to us.
Salt Lake Hardcore has gotten me through the toughest times in my life life (I'm sure most of you have felt the same).
I love you guys.
Dan
my point directly is that we are here trying to make things better. we are making the effort, with absolutely no personal gain other than the knowledge that we have made an honest effort up to date. i appreciate anyone being able to come at me straight, because its a rare thing these days. i do not feel however that making posts on here when there are direct ways of contacting any of the three of us with any questions you may have. any question anyone has about the GCA can be asked directly and you can rest assured youll get a straight answer.
ReplyDeleteid like to say as far as gaza, ive been saying the same thing since we were putting them on shows at the vortex. i do not like supporting bands who dont have the decency to stick around and watch the other locals. with that said, we post on this site according to what we think kids might want to hear about. a lot of actual hardcore kids really like gaza and are stoked to hear anything about them. some kids like the fashion stuff dan posts or the celebrity gossip, and it will continue. it is not about hyping anyone or anything, but about informing and maybe if we are lucky entertaining from time to time. i get your point that you feel that this cite is not catering to salt lake hardcore kids because you arent interested in what is being posted or feel that some things being supported dont support salt lake hardcore. the fact i think youre over looking is that salt lake hardcore today is more than the 10 30 yr old men that still go to shows and the countless others that have too much going on to make it out. we are not all that hardcore in salt lake is anymore.
and mike, we talked earlier and i know we are at an understanding but i would like to say, anyone who is worried about any funds the gca has can ask me or dan and either of us would be more than willing to let you take a look at the accounts. every penny we have made or spent is logged and at least two of us have been involved with every financial decision we have made. the reason why a lot of the things we had been talking about last fall havent happened quite frankly is money and lack of help. we tried for 6 months to get a venue open, we looked at several places, and found one that was already ready to open if we could come up with 7000. we couldnt come up with the money to open a venue without taking personal loans out, seeing as how none of us have collateral to put against any business loans. we almost went through with it until we really figured out how much monthly income the place needed to be making to run it legally. in order to run a venue and rent it out by night at a reasonable rate we figured we would have to be having shows every other night, which leaves the question who will run the spot when all the people involved work full time jobs and go to school. what it comes down to right now is until we can get kids involved and going to shows we cant do enough shows to keep a venue self sufficient. as far as the remaining funds we do have, whats left will continue to be put into the salt lake hardcore community. to date the only money that has been spent has been put towards sound equipment, shows, the website, and the podcast. we were going to release a local sampler and use the remaining funds to make between 500 and 1000 of them but decided that doing an online free sampler made more sense and will reach more people. we have a lot of ideas and are always looking for new ones. so, if anyone has suggestions on how we can help the slc hardcore scene be what we know it should be, hit us up because this is a community and we are all a part of it.
My two cents.
ReplyDeleteIn all reality, the only thing that most people know about "Grudge City" is that it was a clever tagline on an Aftermath of a Trainwreck or Cherem shirt. No one really has any idea where it came from or where it goes from there.
And yes, there are people that hold it closely and to whom it means a great deal, but an almost equal amount of people that were around when Grudge City was originally coined or formed have either dropped off the face of the earth or don't give a fuck about what's going on in the scene right now at all. They haven't been to a show in ages and probably won't ever come to one again.
And sure, maybe we should have started a blog called "Shit We Like by Dan, Trevor and Sias" but we didn't. Dan and I started this because we wanted to keep writing. We wanted to write about stuff we liked and things that were going on in the scene. It was at at a time when there hadn't been a show for over a year and the only thing on the horizon was a Have Heart show at Artopia (organized by Reviver) so, beyond that, there wasn't really much to write about. We decided to make it a Salt Lake music blog with a strong emphasis on hardcore and the name Grudge City Activities just stuck.
We honestly didn't think that it would be something that people looked at on a daily basis. It was just something fun for us to do.
If we kept content strictly to those bands that are at the heart of Grudge City, there would be posts like "Dismantled may have practiced last night." or "Tamerlane didn't practice for the sixth week in a row." or "Collapse wrote two decent riffs, quit and went to Evergreen."
That would be boring.
I want to use this site as a snapshot of what's going on in the scene, the city and life as a whole right now. That way, in twenty years, when we're all old as shit, retired and living on a beach somewhere, maybe we can dig out the internet machine (probably owned by some local, neighborhood kid), look back and remember what things were like and tell stories about the old days.
And if anyone thinks that this site is bringing in money or that we're profiting from any of this, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. If that was the case, I wouldn't be waking up at 6:30 am to go to work 5 days a week.
One more thing: If you don't like Gaza that's fine, but as the one that organized the Braveyoung show and asked them to play, I feel that I need to clear a few things up. First off, Gaza wasn't originally asked to play. I asked Bird Eater, but since their drummer is Mormon and couldn't play on Sunday's, Jon (who is in both bands) wrote back and told me as much but that Gaza would play instead. I said sure.
ReplyDeleteJon and Tino were the first two people at Baxter's (other than Collapse). I was stressed as shit because it was Easter Sunday and the only people that were there when the show was supposed to start were two guys from Gaza and my band. I put off the show as long as possible, and while Gaza played football in the grass on the side of the building, I paced around waiting for people to show up.
The other two members of Gaza showed up with their equipment and merch just as Collapse started to play . I know this because on the video of Collapse from that show, members of Gaza were watching us from the side. After we were done, they set up their equipment while Jon set up merch. They played their set and Braveyoung showed up half an hour after they finished.
After the show, I took all the money, set what we owed for renting sound equipment aside, paid Baxter's and gave the rest of the money to Braveyoung. I said to Jon, who was still there with Gaza's merch, "I paid the venue and gave the rest to the touring band."
He said to, "That's fine with me. We were just happy to play. Thanks for asking us."
If they came off as rockstars to anyone else, I'm sorry to hear that, but to me, they came across as anything but.
All that said, I agree with Sias on something else. I like to think that I'm one of the most approachable and available people to get a hold of or talk to. That's the reason my face and my name is all over this site. If you have a problem or an issue with something I'm not going to tell you to fuck off and walk away.
I'm a pretty damn reasonable person.
But in the end, I'm glad you all take an interest in what's going on. None of this–shows, bands, websites, blogs—would be possible if there weren't at least a few people left that gave a fuck.
So thank you.
You guys are all a little sensitive about this... And completely over looking what im trying to convey here. So let me say this as clear as I can...I like the site, i look at it often. Im not making personal attacks at anybody. Its your site change or dont change what ever you want. Nobody has mentioned money once. When i talked to dan on the phone i discussed it with him and if you want to hear my personal opinion on the money situation we can talk in RL im not gonna go into that on here.
ReplyDeleteWith that all being said
I will repeat my original questions again
Why do we hate the Kollective?
Because Im staring to think that my reasons are different than other peoples.
Why do bands that dont care about OUR hardcore scene get so much press on here?
This is just a question, Im not saying you should stop writing about Converge, and Gaza, and XtyrantX completely. Im sure there is somebody out there that is interested that Jake Bannon is inventing new colors and XtyrantX personally caught Saddam Hussein. And really to be honest i usually just dont read these articles or follow the link... Like i said it was simply just a question. i didnt know it was gonna create such a huff.... It was just from my personal opinion.
Really this whole thing sparked because of that Rise Against thread... That is the coolest thing ive read this week... maybe even this month, and i was trying to point out the inconsistencies we've let enter our daily routines. And the fact that a main stream band was willing to say fuck you to something they truly believed in got my wheels turning.
All I am asking is take an outsiders look in. If you dont see an issue then fine we're just not in the same place with our opinions. And thats just fine by me.
I cannot stress enough I AM NOT just talking with this website. Im trying to bring up a much larger issue here.
The fact that kids are still going to shows put on by these sketchy venues is ok... especially amongst our friends!
The fact that bands trying to be rock stars is not only tolerated its being fucking encouraged!
The fact that people are even playing ball with these lowlife booking agents.
If we're gonna claim Grudge City.... Lets fucking live up to it
I forgot to add....
ReplyDeleteYou guys keep saying "why haven't you talked to us in person about this?"
Firstly Yes i have!!!!!
Secondly if you were to say to me in real life "hey everybody go to the sleeping giant show at V2" I would give you an ear full about why that place sucks.
Youre posting these things on the internet and leaving a space for me to comment. So im leaving comments like you ask for. I dont see how thats even something thats an issue.
If you only want positive comments say you only want positive comments.
Brook, once again,:
ReplyDelete"This is hardcore we're talking about! This is about hanging out with your friends, having fun and being honest. It's about giving a fuck about the world and what's going on around you. If people talked like this more often, Salt Lake would have a hell of a lot more going on! (And we already have more than most cities so appreciate that.)
So enjoy the site or don't. I'm not sweating it. We're not making money. We're not looking for scene points. We're doing our best to support honest bands and people who are doing shows (let us know if something we post is bullshit, it's good to be honest and we need your help)."
Here’s what I have to say along with some questions I would like answered by anyone that is willing to, that would be cool. I know I really have no business with this because it is kind of a personal issue, so I will stay out of what might piss people off. This is just mainly being typed because of Brooks’ last post.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first started listening to hardcore I was told about Grudge City and the shows they put on, I thought that was cool so I started going to the shows. The first thing I started hearing from people at shows was the kollective. Pretty much what I heard was that they ripped off bands and were leaching off hardcore bands and young kids pockets, obviously I thought that sucked. So I have never been to a kollective show, haven’t been to the Avalon or any other venue of theirs. I have been to the V2 though and don’t plan on going back. It’s fucked up that they do all that stuff, so I realize that putting on DIY shows is the better more just thing to do, knowing that people who actually give a fuck are putting on a show and bands that give a fuck are playing as well as the people who attend. So that’s what I do, and I feel like I have been going to shows consistently now, although I will miss some here and there though. Here’s the thing, promoters and big time venues have always been shitty. But I still don’t understand why you won’t go see a good band that cares about what they are doing just because of the Venue, I tried to ask Dan this question a year ago and I didn’t get the answer I was looking for (no offence). There is nothing wrong with a band having commercial success as long as they put their heart into the music they make, god forbid a band should make some money. So to Brook, I guess after all these years of thinking why it sucked I don’t anymore or I just never did. Why do you actually hate the kollective? Maybe it is the same reason I thought, maybe not. Either way I’m still going to be attending the Uprok shows and whatever venue the shows get moved to in the future. But keep in mind that sometimes bands that care about what they do, that happen to be kind of big that are out of state will happen to book a show at one of those “big time” venues just because they are more popular, they didn’t know any better. Did they? Someone please enlighten me, I’m just curious. Because I’m starting to think that everyone is wrong. Not trying to start an argument, just trying to find out what the fuck is going on. I’m just trying to get involved and putting more of an initiative into promoting shows, I'm just willing to help.
Sorry you didn't get a solid response Shon.
ReplyDeleteBig promoters exploit bands to make money. This has always been the case. In the early 2000s, promoters began to make real money through booking hardcore bands.
In Salt Lake, a number of these promoters popped up (The Kollective staff, back at Lo-Fi Cafe, being one of them). These guys actively worked to shut down hardcore venues and steal larger shows. They kept hardcore kids out of their shows and called the cops whenever hardcore kids came within earshot. They've proved over time that they are shameless liars and snitches, with no concern for the traditions or ethics of the hardcore scene.
To me, and to most (I hope), hardcore is the antithesis of this bullshit. It's about honesty, respect and integrity. It's about toppling this type of system.
When you hand a money-hungry promoter your hard-earned cash, you're strengthening the commoditization of one of the most important things in my life, our lives: this music and this scene.
In my eyes, bands that work with booking agents and promoters like The Kollective have lost sight of the values and ethics that make hardcore so great. There's nothing wrong with becoming popular but it's easy to tell whether a band has retained its convictions... if they're booking with shady motherfuckers like The Kollective, even after they've learned about their behavior, they're probably off course.
Thanks for the support Shon. Let me know if you need any clarification.
Dan summed up how i feel pretty well. But in a quick summary in my own words.
ReplyDeleteThe reason for booking agents is for the soul purpose of selling the show to the higgest bidder. So such as dan said you lost touch with hardcore if thats the route youre taking. And well most bands dont understand that the Kollective specifically is a bad company, but personally i feel like most big promoters as a whole are losers, and potential problems. So they should know going into it they are most likely dealing with a shit bag.
Oh yeah i forgot to mention my main point!
ReplyDeleteLike ive said a bunch already...
I think Rise Against is a perfect example. They said fuck you to the promoter... And im quite certain their booking agent was pissed as fuck... But none the less they had the conviction to say fuck money this is what we're about and there is no way we're gonna play for something we strongly disagree with.
thanks to dan and brook. you pretty much summed it up.
ReplyDeletethis debate is probably the most refreshing thing i've seen in a long time... i've been going to shows in salt lake for a couple years now... i hail from heber city and heber city had no scene, so me and the dudes would drive all the way to salt lake as much as we could (whenever gardner could get his moms spaceship car)... i've never put on a show or helped put on a show but i've always appreciated the work that you (whoever) have put into it... it meant alot back when i wasn't even old enough to drive to know that there was a scene out there built on integrity and wasn't just about clicks and all that other borsch...
ReplyDeletei've never considered myself a part of Grudge City Hardcore, just a hardcore kid... or rather a kid that loves hardcore... Grudge City has always been, to me the center of salt lakes hardcore scene... but even when i was scared to death that my head was gonna get kicked off... i felt welcome...
in the relatively short time i've been going to shows 8 or so years (thats gotta be worth some scene points haha jk)... shit has changed kids have gotten younger and younger... always taller than me though... the venues have changed... and people have come and gone... but, personally it think its open discussions like this that have always lead to better things in the scene...
so...
i'm not even sure why the fuck i'm posting... reading this back and forth just reminded me how much i like hardcore and all the honest shit that goes along with it...
but seriously all you dudes... dan, sias, trevor, brook whoever else has helped keep hardcore real and in salt lake... thanks...
So I went to the Doomriders show tonight who I assume is put on by the Kollective or at least is at V2 and they didn't show up for whatever reason. Since the rest of the music I could care less about, they refunded my money even though they weren't technically supposed to as Doomriders weren't the headliner. I thought it was rather nice.
ReplyDeleteI think hardcore in salt lake means a lot of things to different people. For most of you guys you'll always look back on shows that happened 5,10,15 years ago and say that was when the scene was fun that was when the scene was real. And i guess really its kinda sad that kids(myslef included) will look back on these times as the glory years.
ReplyDeleteI lived in salt lake for 2.5 years now and even in that short amount of time i've seen the shows digress. the first summer i lived here there was a show at the vortex every week it seemed like, and at least 200 hundred kids would be there. now we are lucky to get 35 kids to come out to a coffee shop. With Dismantled and xreflectx I always wanted to play shows other than "grudge city shows" and they never turned out well. I thought we would play to a different crowd of 100 or so kids and everyone would be into it. but that wasn't the case. everyone just stood and stared at us like we were fucks, or no one stuck around. except strangely enough the reviver and gaza/birdeater dudes. When reflect was asked to play kilby court i was excited cuz i hadn't been there since i was 14, but as soon as we got up to play everyone left with the exception of birdeater and our friends.
I think a huge part of what has brought salt lake down in recent years is the high school gangster/crew straight edge bullshit. There are DIY hardcore shows up and down the valley all the time but a certain few are welcome. cuz either the people putting on the show are scared of getting beat up, or the people attending are scared that they will get beat up cuz they aren't in the correct "Crew".
i'm not trying to be overly positive, but until the high school mentality stops there will be no big hardcore shows put on by real kids in salt lake city. just my thoughts, but i'm only 21 so what do i know right?
^Probably the most lucid thing said in awhile^
ReplyDeletei agree, i know kids that are scared of coming to gca shows so they drive all the way to colorado for a show. but i have friends that did nothing wrong at vortex shows, and where treated like shit, so you cant blame them. im not going to drop any names, but those guys know who they are.
ReplyDeletei completely agree with this whole "crew" thing. recently at sleeping giant i got interrogated by a person insisting i belong to a "rival" crew of his. I assured him that i belong to no crew and that i love being friends with everyone in the hardcore/straight edge scene. He still persisted that i should watch my back.
ReplyDeleteThis scene would have so much more potential if all these different cliques and crews came together. because we have things in common, we love hardcore/ and for some of us straight edge.
I have only been to a handful of grudge city shows. But to me that's what hardcore should feel like, hardcore kids booking hardcore shows. completely diy.
I'll just go ahead and say I appreciate all the talk Reviver gets on this site. I enjoy GCA.com and read it pretty frequently. Dan, Trevor and Sias are all great guys in my book. I think this site and what they are doing with it is a progressive step forward for the scene.
ReplyDeleteThe past couple years(basically all of Reviver's existence.) have been pretty rough, like the scene is just barely hanging on. We've had to book our own shows and find our own venues, hell I've even done a number of shows out of my own basement in the past to help out a few friend's touring bands. But the cops shut me down. We never have a solid venue for longer than the span of a few months. We found places like Artopia and Baxters and a few houses, they were all awesome while they lasted. Uprok has been picking up the slack as of late and that's great, but who knows when/what will be the end of that.
We've been trying to do our part to keep hardcore and DIY promoted shows up and running in Salt Lake. While staying open to most if not all circles. It's difficult especially with how much we're not even in SLC. But we're trying to hang on.
People like The Kollective and Outer Rim are terrible. And I think it's unfortunate more people aren't trying to get out there and book/promote their own shows. The bad guys are winning.
It was nice back when there was a legit venue to operate and book through, like the Vortex with people like Blake who were awesome enough to step up to the promoter plate and keep some ethics in the picture. Booking big tour packages and local shows.
From a touring perspective and judging other scenes, the oddball show that somehow get's put on by some promotion company is always the worst show of the tour and it's always simply there because there was absolutely no one else willing to step up and book the show. We don't have a booking agent, we don't have a guarantee. If someone wanted to offer a sweet DIY show as an alternative to some promotion company they were claiming to be sketchy, we would listen. The Polar Bear Club show back in April was a perfect example of what can often be done, we spoke with the band and booking agent and snaked the show from the Kollective and threw it on at Baxters and it was a great success.
So more needs to be done. We need more people standing up and booking shows, giving these bands and booking agents other options. Give people like the Kollective a run for their money. Most of the kids that go to their shows don't care who's booking/promoting it, they just want to see the bands. So if you just steal their shows these kids probably just show up to your shows.
My $.02
I just want to respond to talk of crew drama. I dont think snitches, and people who talk shit on our hardcore scene should come to shows. Not because they are in this crew or that crew, but because people who talk to the cops have no place in the hardcore community. And i dont think anyone disagrees with that. That being said i dont take it upon myself to tell kids not to come to shows. I think they just know they shouldnt come so they dont.
ReplyDeleteI'm grateful to be apart of a community- our hardcore scene- that's still honest, that's still true, that still gives a fuck. I know most of the finger pointing of this "high school/crew drama" is being pointed at my friends, and at me... and rightfully so. But who amongst all of us hasn't taken part of or added to it in some way? I think that if more kids wanted to come to real hardcore shows in salt lake then they would come. The information isn't hard to find and I can't think of a group of kids that offers more of an extending hand. I can't think of one time where Ive told a kid not to come to shows. It's not my place. That being said I don't know why these kids (these snitches, liars, and rats) would be interested in coming to REAL hardcore shows. DIY hardcore shows. It's aparent that they don't give a fuck about hardcore, and just like booking agencies like the kollective it seems like they're only in it for their own personal gain. But really, what do I know as well?
ReplyDeletefuck that. every kid should be welcome at our shows, not matter where they live, who they associate with, what they look like, or what their speculated past is, as long as they dont start any trouble. If you have a problem with someone or if you've heard they were "talking shit" how about you use your words instead of perpetuating the problem thats killing our scene.
ReplyDeleteSalt lake is way too small of a place for divisions and personal vendettas if you're trying to start a realistic alternative to the bullshit cultural norms of this town. We cant pick and choose who is in our hardcore scene, it has to be all-inclusive if we want a chance at having this survive or being taken seriously.
no, not fuck that because I don't want to be associated with a group of fucking shit heads who only like hardcore or like going to hardcore shows just to be seen or cool. Hardcore to me, is an escape from all the bullshit that goes in our life, not an addition, and it shouldn't be that. So I ask you, What's the fun in going to shows with these type of kids who are rats and snitches and liars? I've been to a number of shows, and the most fun that I've gone to are the ones where all your friends go and you can trust people and you feel comfortable, and you can feel the sincerity (from the bands and from my friends as well), not the ones where there's a bunch of assholes who are fucking snitches and liars and will sell you out to the cops. That's fucking bullshit and I think that if you want to start a scene like that than be my guest, but I won't go to shows with dumb people and dumb bands.
ReplyDeleteI like this website, i think it does a lot of good because it tells you what is going on with bands that i am interested in.
ReplyDeleteas far as the gaza things go, i think it is retarded that they dont come and support shows you guys put out when you are supporting them, and same as the reviver kids, i mean their cool dudes, but i dont understand why they dont come out to shows when you put them on.
i think all the crew bull shit drama should stop as well. people that are snitches may come, or people you hate may come, but get them later, get them after the show away from the venue, or sneak in a kollective show and beat them up there, at least that puts a bad word on the kollective and you still get to beat the dude up.... it seems like the dudes that people hate go to the kollective shows so why not fuck up their scene.
i'm not saying be buddies with whoever you hate but for a couple hours why cant you just chill?
i know some of the bingham kids would like to go to shows, i mean dont get me wrong, i fuckin hate a lot of those kids.. but they have been coming to park shows and it does make it go a lot better when their are more kids around and it's not really fair to the bands that are playing if their's only your group of friends coming around.
if you guys need help with flyers or talking to kids to come to shows ill help you, just let me know.
garrett
i agree that snitches shouldnt come around. as far as kids who are only into hardcore because it is cool or kids who talk shit, i agree with josh. no one starts coming to shows already knowing anything, the hardcore scene helps us become real hardcore kids. i dont know one person who started coming around and new how things were from the get go. hardcore is for anyone who is interested and if they act like a fuck or cause some shit then they can be ejected. and stefan, your friends are not the only group of young kids out there fighting other groups of kids, im not going to point fingers but there has been alot of silly high school drama in the last 5 years. at a time when hardcore is dwindling in salt lake there are whole groups of kids where a few of them have ran their mouth or people dont like certain people over shit with a girl and that whole group of kids dont come around anymore. not every kid you guys seem to hate is all that bad a kid and a lot of the beef is born out of purely high school angst.
ReplyDeletewe are better than this, if you want to go fight kids, keep it away from hardcore shows.
in short, i think anyone out there who thinks they care about hardcore should be coming to shows. there are two sides to every rivalry and one side is not always in the right.
The reason these kids dont come around anymore is because they had been coming around, 5 years ago all these kids were coming to shows, and started acting like fucks and so in turn they were 'ejected'. The kids I dont want coming to shows are the kids that are snitches, and I dont know anyone who doesnt agree with that statement. I agree that shows are for anyone interested and that if kids wanna come they should feel welcome to come. Like I said it isnt my place to say who can and cannot come to shows, I never have or will tell someone that. Ive never fought at a salt lake hardcore show, and I dont feel that me or any of my friends have ever caused a real problem. There was a time where things got pretty close but I thought everyone had talked through and gotten over that. Is the salt lake hardcore scene dwindling? I agree that there are several things that could change but I think the real problem is the shit talking behind so-called friends backs, the dishonesty in the scene, not who is or isnt coming to shows. Im more than down to help out alongside almost every other hardcore kid in this city with whatever it is thats needed to be done to promote the shows in our scene. I dont know of any certain groups that have been completely cut off over mere shit talk or problems with girls. There truly isnt that many kids that I, or any of my friends, hate and I think youd be surprised by the things we have let go.
ReplyDeleteThere is definitely always two sides and I could be in the wrong here, Im only stating my opinion. I want to do whatever I can to progress our scene further and I certainly dont want anyone to feel like Im holding them back. I feel like Im a very approachable and reasonable guy and I definitely dont mean to sound offended or come off as attacking. Thanks Sias.
like i said stefan, i agree that snitches arent welcome. and i know that i dont know a lot of the younger kids you guys have had problems with in the past and im certainly not the type to get out there and get to know new people. i dont think you guys are in the wrong in all your situations but i do know a few of the small beefs that have taken place with your generations hardcore kids(hopefully that doesnt sound condescending) have been over really petty shit which escalated into bigger problems. i know there are a lot of kids out there who dont come around over trully rediculous squables. it was the same when the kids my age were just getting out of high school. most the kids we 'ejected' from the scene really were fucks but there were a lot of kids who were just guilty by association. i feel if we want to make it the hardcore scene in salt lake better we need to encourage more kids who we dont really know to take part in the local hardcore community. im grateful for every kid who comes out to shows, i know we have it a lot better than a lot of other places, im just saying we are fully capable of making it even better than we have it now.
ReplyDeleteon the subject of kids talking shit, id like to elaborate on my opinion. i find it hard to believe that any kid who talks shit now and considers himself a hardcore kid started talking shit on salt lake hardcore just because. generally that sort of thing starts when those people are made to not feel welcome, maybe not on the whole but most. i could care less about what someone has said in the past if they are coming to shows now and making it better for all of us. we dont need segregated scenes in our city and we certainly can avoid it. im not saying we all have to be friends, i think that is a naive concept, but i do think we can all cohabit shows with people we dont really like or care for on a personal level.
I've been keeping up with this and I feel like a lot of great points have been covered. A lot of great points have been brought that I'd only be repeating.
ReplyDeleteI think Salt Lake in general has a lot of potential, both music and movements outside of music. The greatest aspect of this is that only we shape it. We build it up and we burn it down.
My first show was at the U of U ballroom with The Wake, Pushing Up Daisies, Abhor The Fallen, and Opened up. I don't remember what exact year that was..but if someone does, please remind me. It was great. I was overwhelmed with many aspects of the shows I'd go to. I loved the sense of accountability and responsibility that went into these. I remember seeing the kid taking care of the door and the money doing his job and then getting up and dancing to the bands. Keep in mind, I had no idea the ethics and the 'normal standards' that went on with these shows. Everyone here knows all the greatness that can potentially come from shows so there's no need for me to name everything that has been named.
The fact that there is such an open in depth discussion about this is great. The one thing about salt lake is that the scene has always been a roller coaster. It goes through its highs and lows and frankly, it has been low lately. I, along with other people that book shows I'm sure, have been having a hard time making sure that enough kids show up to give the touring bands money. Over the summer I booked a handful of shows while I was in town and ended up throwing 50-70 bucks out of my pocket to make sure the bands could make it to the next place. Now, I have no problem doing this. Its a risk that comes with it and its bound to happen, especially in the summer when there are more shows than usual. Plus, before I started booking shows I had conversations with Blake about how he'd have to pay bands out of his pocket at times. The bummer about this is the reasoning behind it. No more than a handful of kids would come to shows. It’s weird because I felt like we did our best to promote it, whether it be fliers, internet, text messages, etc. I'm not sure why kids didn't come and at this point I don't really care because it’s in the past, but this can all be easily prevented.
With being on tour most of the year, I see a lot of different types of scenes. Some are in a way worse spot that salt lake, and some are at their peak, but they never feel the same way salt lake has felt at one time or another. I know that salt lake has the potential to reach full potential and stay on top instead of the whole roller coaster effect. I'm excited for things to start working their way up, and it looks like the scene is on its way now.
I don't know anything about these crews or drama, I don't have background with what grudge city means to certain people, and I don't know everyone's reasoning behind going or not going to shows. All I know is that the problem(s) that we are facing can be easily solved and prevented later on. I know that not everyone is going to like each other or get along with everyone, that is a given when it comes to any subculture, but if so many people really have this common goal, then something so petty shouldn't make this a dead end road. Everyone has been really cool and respectful to me since I've been going to shows whether they like me or not, and I've always appreciated it. Its actions like that that keeps people motivated to keep working towards this common goal.
Like I said, there has been a lot of great points covered in this discussion and I’m stoked to see them put to use. It’s very easy to do that as well. For bands that need help getting shows: visit coffee shops, record stores, warehouses, churches, etc, and ask them if you can put on a show. Offer to give them a percentage of the door ($2-3 a person is appealing) and offer to cover the costs if anything is broken. Better yet, okay it with your roommates if you can throw it in your basement or your friend’s basement. Ask for donations and usually kids will be generous enough to make sure the band is taken care of. Next, promote. Easiest part. After that, have a good time and remember that not liking someone or the current drama isn’t worth putting a damper, or even ruining, the productivity that can occur at shows. This is supposed to mean everything to us. This can be so much more. We all know this. I think Dan, Sias, and Trevor are a prime example of taking action and taking a huge step towards building something bigger. I’ve always appreciated the intention and effort that has gone into this website.
ReplyDeleteSo everyone keeps saying that they want more kids to come to shows.
ReplyDeleteFor what reason?
The only reason it sounds like to me is so bands can make money.
Now correct me if i'm wrong I thought Salt Lake hardcore wasnt about making money.
And also I agree with Sias when you said Nobody comes into the scene knowing whats up, so we should give new kids a chance.
I agree with that, we should give NEW kids a chance not kids who have already shown everybody where they stand in the hardcore scene and are a bunch of fucks who are only in it for the money and only in it to get the next HxC band hoodie.
and I know that most of these "High school drama" comments are directed to me and my friends but you can't tell me that you don't have problems with people that you wouldnt want coming to shows or when you were around the age of 18 that you and your friends didnt want certain kids coming to shows because they were a bunch of lying snitching back stabbing fucks or for any other reason.
ReplyDeleteAll of those kids have made the desicion of what kind of shows they want to go to and what kind of kids they want to be and if thats how they want to be then I say fuck em' why would we want them at shows anyway?
The only reason that everyone keeps giving for more kids coming to shows is so the bands can get money and that is still a little confusing to me.
There's no money in hardcore, or punk rock for that matter on a diy level. I think that was taken out of context. Why not have more kids come? It can only improve the scene, ideally. As far as the money situation, its hard from a booking stand point to bring a band to town and say, sorry I have nothing to give you. Gas is expensive as fuck when, seeing that most bands get 10-12 miles to the gallon tops. Also, salt lake is in a rough spot. The closest city is 6 hours away. So, my point, its not just about a money, but unfortunately its a factor that comes into play when you're trying to help out other kids in other scenes and keep all sense of community in hardcore. I've never delt with guarantees and never will, but there are some awesome bands and awesome dudes out there that are doing great things as bands and individuals and its nice to have them come to salt lake and share what they are doing to as many people possible. That's the main goal. On top of that, its nice to help them get to the next city and continue doing what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteI'm 25 years old. I've been playing in bands and going to shows for over a decade.
ReplyDeleteWithout the ethics that I gained in the hardcore scene, I don't know where I'd be... who I'd be. Hardcore helped me make sense of the world. And it gave me the courage to fight to make it a better place.
Even after all these years, going to shows, playing in bands and singing along with my friends reinforces my convictions and my belief that I can make a difference.
Why do I want more kids at shows? Because I truly believe that hardcore is a positive force in a fucked-up world.
P.S...
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, liars/fakes/snitches fall off fast. Time spent worrying about that shit is much better spent booking shows, starting bands, writing zines, putting out records or just enjoying shows. This is what I feel hardcore should be about: pro-actively improving ourselves and our community.
Since the money thing has been brought up I want to take a closer look at the financial side of how it works for promoters and touring bands:
ReplyDeleteLet's just say you're in a band and you decide you're going to go on tour for something like a month. Now, chances are everyone in your band had to quit their job to do it, while also keeping in mind all of your bills are still there. To do the tour your band will need a van and possibly a trailer. Those things aren't cheap and you'll probably have to go into some real debt to acquire them. Since your band isn't a very big deal, you struggle for a couple months trying to book the tour yourself and more than likely you will not get any sort of guarantee for any of the shows. If you somehow get a promoter con'd into agreeing to one, it's still not "guaranteed" that you will get any money.
Gas costs money and you're not exactly touring around in a vehicle with remotely decent fuel economy. I've never toured with gas under $2 a gallon and in some cases I've seen it in excess of $5 a gallon. You may have a 12 hour drive or you may have a 2 hour drive, depending on the luck of your routing/booking.
You also have other maintenance expenses such as oil changes and any other bullshit that can happen to a vehicle forced to drive thousands of miles a week.
Basically, it's very expensive and takes insane amounts of sacrifice on the musician's behalf.
Now lets look at the available sources of income the band has:
Merch... You can print shirts at a few bucks a pop and sell them at a profit zone of a few bucks. Personally my band asks $10 a shirt O.B.O. because $10 is a standard band shirt price. But if some kid comes up and says "Hey I love your band and want a shirt but I only have, $_" I want him walking away with something even if we don't make a profit.
CD's... Let's face it, most people won't pay for it. You're lucky to sell a CD or two a night. I don't own %90 of the music on my iPod and I don't know many people any different. Just be stoked people want to hear your music. My band sells our full length CD for $10, but for the sake of making it available, I also personally host a Media Fire account where you can download the whole album for free AND we bring a spindle of burned CDR's on tour so that we can give them away to those with no money.
Door money... The shows are very random, some will be houses, VFW halls, coffee shops, parks, etc... In many cases the money will be handled as donations. I'm stressing the "no guarantee" thing. You will make $4 in pocket change after playing to 10 kids in a basement one night and the next day you may drive several hours to the venue only to find the show got cancelled. Every once in a while you will play a great show with a good turnout and a legit promoter and end up making a reasonable amount of money, maybe $50-$100. But also every once in a while you will play a comparable show with a shady promoter who dodges out or hands you $20 after paying xBishopx their $600 guarantee and stuffing a few hundred into his own pocket...
When Matt or myself promote/manage shows in SLC we try to find a good mid-zone on donations vs set door price. We try to keep door costs cheap, always under $10. And in most cases we cut slack on people who are short on money. A good turnout is more important than making the financial part work out. We don't feel that being broke should be an excuse to not attend shows. Consequently in the state that the scene is in, we don't always make an amount from donations/door money that we feel is good enough to hand these bands. And sometimes that ends with us paying bands a bit out of pocket.
So when you look at the whole picture concerning expense vs earnings for touring bands to operate. It's a joke. Most hard working bands are barely scraping by and getting to the next town if the band isn't an expense to the members altogether.
You can't get into booking shows and/or playing in a band thinking that you're going to make money. You will be disapointed.
i think dan and matt covered some of your points but id like to reiterate a little bit. i dont know who you are so i cant say if anyone is talking about you and your friends. i know that the last few generations have really taking it upon themselves to decide who could come to shows and who couldnt. all of that shit is over personal beefs which have no place affecting shows. and no, i have never tried to keep someone from coming to shows because of my drama, if i had a problem with someone ive dealt with it on my own and left it clear of the scene. like i said before, there are a lot of younger kids out there who im sure were better off to not have around, but there are most certainly plenty who just got caught up in the drama and belong at shows. and in my experience, the kids who care the most about crew drama and trying to keep kids from going to shows are ususally the ones who fall off and stop coming around in their early 20's.
ReplyDeletealso, we cant get new kids at shows to give a chance to if were out squabbling over bullshit drama. reputation spreads and young kids have every reason to be to intimidated to come to shows. those same kids dont hear your side of the situation, they see your actions and hear the other side of the altercation or hear about it 3rd hand.
why do i want more kids at shows? three reasons. one, because a show with 300 kids you dont know is far more fun for everyone than a show witht he same 40 kids, a full venue makes for a funner show. two, like matt said, its hard for bands to get to salt lake because its so out of the way and why would a band want to come play a city with a reputation like ours for a handful of kids at best and no promise of gas money. three, like dan said, hardcore is a powerfully insperational venue for new ideas for young kids. hardcore has made me into the person i am, not the music but the community it inspires.
why is money relevant? like matt said, bands need gas money, they need make theyre way to the next town and we are far as fuck from anywhere else. aside from that though in my opinion(and this goes along with bringing kids to shows), in order to really establish a strong hardcore scene again we need a diy, legal, self sustaining venue, ran by kids who care about local music not money. unfortunatly like i said in one of my earlier posts it is too expensive to run a venue with the amount of kids we have coming to shows right now. 95% of the shows we do we break even or lose money on after paying bands 150-200 to get to the next city. if salt lake had a solid local venue the local music scenes would prosper beyond anything we have seen to date. look at albee court for those of you who were around in the early 2000's. there was 200+ kids at every show then and they were far more enjoyable. and seriously, there are far more kids out there now who are into hardcore.
basicly all im saying is if we can put our petty bullshit aside we can make things so much better, so much more consistant.
also, i want to point out that a strong hardcore scene has the potential to build character, and thats why most of the older kids are such solid people. i think 90% of kids in high school dont know enough about being a responsible/reasonable person to make the best of decisions. that may sound condescending but the same goes for me, i do not feel i would be the man i am today without hardcore as an influence in my life. i did not have the moral and ethical code i gained from being a part of the hardcore community because society is pertty fucked up and most kids dont get a good enough grasp on what really is right or wrong. when youre that young most of your concerns are based on appearance and popularity. people go one of two ways, they continue that route the rest of their lives or they grow and become people who can make the hard choices in life. that is why a lot of other music scenes are all about image and hardcore at its core is about ideas.
ReplyDeleteWhy are all of you people so worried about snitches? Why do you pretend to be in the mafia? Your not drug runners or mass murderers. You need to realize this whole snitch thing is an issue because a group of bullys run around and act like thugs and attack people. They do this at shows and anywhere else they feel safe enouh to do so. if a kid gets jumped at a show because he moshed the wrong direction he should call the cops and sue the people that beat him up. its funny that people are worried about snitching because they dont want that name because the tuff guys look down on it. what would you do if your house was robbed or your sister was raped? you cant call the cops because thats a snitch thing to do.fuck that shit i love going to shows and i wont stop but ill let you know ill snitch on anybody that tries to hurt me or my friends.
ReplyDeleteit has nothing to do with a mob or gang mentality, there is no one in hardcore with an ounce of dignity that will say calling the cops or testifying on someone for any reason that is something someone who considers themselves a hardcore kid should do. hardcore was born out of punk rock my friend and the same anti establishment roots are still present in one form or another. you clearly dont go to actual hardcore shows if youre only reference for kids being called snitches has to do with beef over dancing. the kids picking the fights over dance floor grudges are the exact kids who dont come to the shows we support. i recognize you are probably pretty young if youll go so far to say that you will rat on anyone but in all honesty you cant trust someone who will turn to the same people who constantly work to shut down hardcore shows in this state for protection. that is a very foolish statement my man.
ReplyDeletei just dont like being intimidated by people i look up to. im intimidated because i have seen kids fight 1 or 2 other kids for nothing. i love going to hxc shows and i have for 2 years now. i just feel like people here like to act like gangmembers. it reminds me of the tongan kids at my school. all in all i love going to shows in slc and i like supporting the scene and thats why i felt i could say what i wanted on this site.
ReplyDeleteyoure certainly welcome to say what you want my man, but saying that you support resorting to the police to handle your problems is a poor choice of words.
ReplyDeleteI think we just have diferant opinions. would i be any more or less of a snitch if i calld the police if my mom was stabbed by a robber?
ReplyDelete