Here's something I posted in an earlier thread to better explain this situation to those who've never dealt with these individuals:
Big promoters exploit bands to make money. This has always been the case. In the early 2000s, promoters began to make real money through booking hardcore bands.
In Salt Lake, a number of these promoters popped up (The Kollective/Ginger Kid staff, back at Lo-Fi Cafe, being one of them). These guys actively worked to shut down hardcore venues and steal larger shows. They kept hardcore kids out of their shows and called the cops whenever hardcore kids came within earshot. They've proved over time that they are shameless liars and snitches, with no concern for the traditions or ethics of the hardcore scene.
To me, and to most (I hope), hardcore is the antithesis of this bullshit. It's about honesty, respect and integrity. It's about toppling this type of system.
When you hand a money-hungry promoter your hard-earned cash, you're strengthening the commoditization of one of the most important things in my life, our lives: this music and this scene.
In my eyes, bands that work with booking agents and promoters like The Kollective have lost sight of the values and ethics that make hardcore so great. There's nothing wrong with becoming popular but it's easy to tell whether a band has retained its convictions... if they're booking with shady motherfuckers like The Kollective/Ginger Kid, even after they've learned about their behavior, they're probably off course.
So here's what you can do:
The bands on these shows should know what they're getting into. Ginger Kid has shows booked for bands from Pelican to Strike Anywhere. These are bands that should have a problem with this sort of operation. Hit up their MySpace pages. Tell them you'll book real d.i.y. shows for them. We'll be doing the same and we'll do everything we can to help you if you're booking some as well. And make them benefit shows... show these companies that hardcore is not a business and cannot be bought and sold.
You can see a list of their shows here. Take a look and reach out. Don't just sit by while money-hungry old men turn what we love into a commodity.
19 comments:
wait are they the ones doing that Crime In Stereo show?
Yep. I've already written to Strike Anywhere who are headlining. You should get in touch with CIS!
Good post.
Big bummer is that a lot of awesome bands and tour packages are done through a booking agent. And in most cases the booking agents are totally unplugged from that scene/community and aren't concerned with specifics, they just want a someone that's going to say, "I'll do the show and meet your demands."
This actually really sucks. I hadn't even noticed that Ginger Kid Concerts was even doing shows out of V2 altough I knew the guy worked for the Kollective at one point in time. I'm not sure of what shows he has coming up but I need to research this because my band(s) have played and are playing at V2 in the future and we have been working through Citigroup, who granted is a large concert promoter but I personally think treats bands pretty well and has been giving locals great opportunities to be heard by large crowds and play with bands they look up to.
If anyone already knows of good shows in the future that Ginger Kid Concerts is hosting I really think as many people as possible should just try getting a hold of the bands. With myspace and emails for bands booking agents being available there is no reason that with enough people trying the show couldn't get moved or at least get a new promoter hosting the show.
Even if the band isn't everyones favorite it would still make sense to get the shows set up right.
I think now would be the perfect time to fix the Utah scene because shows like Scream the Prayer Tour that Sleeping Giant played back in the summer got switched over and turned out to be a pretty good show without any money drama other than the fact that the tour itself wanted a ridiculous amount of money to play anywhere.
When it comes to bands touring money is obviously needed to survive so by people just saying fuck shows and sitting home is only making hardcore shows die out because it makes bands not be able to offord playing out of their home state, but at the same time there's no point in some guy that is just doing hardcore shows to get some pocket cash in between Panic at the Disco shows to be able to take over and get our money and bands who are out living in relatively bad conditions money.
I know that me and tons of other kids love going to these shows and right now there is a ton coming up so why not just make it right? If scum bags with no passion about these shows can get them booked like they're starting to right now why can't hardcore kids?
It is a huge bummer.
I learned this first hand playing in a band with a fancy label and big-time booking.
You're e-mailed your tour dates. You get in the van. You play each show. You move on. It's so comfortable that you don't want to question whether the person booking your show is a crook... BUT YOU HAVE TO.
It's the band's responsibility to know who is putting on their shows, just like it's our responsibility to let hardcore bands know when they're working with scumbags.
Luckily, I've been on the other side of the game with most of the bands I've played in. We've booked our own all-ages shows through the hardcore scene, in basements and d.i.y. venues. We've played with bands that shared, and strengthened, our convictions.
I've got ten dudes sleeping in my living room this week in between shows on an East Coast tour (Eye of Judgement and Parasitic Skies). I met these guys last week but I already feel like we share so much. We can talk like old friends, even though we barely know each other in the traditional sense.
This is hardcore to me: the creation of communities outside of the mainstream, away of the capitalist bullshit of the music industry that has enveloped "hardcore" during this decade.
If bands sit back and let crooked booking agents, labels or promoters like The Kollective/Avalon/Ginger Kid control their band, they've lost everything that's honest and awesome about hardcore.
good post, thanks dan.
what happened with the earth crisis show was ideal... the kollective thought they could subvert all of us and make us think it was put on by some mystery promoter, but people found out and actually stood up for their convictions...this shit needs to happen again with all of the shows ginger kid is putting on.
For the last couple years the kollective had all but stopped booking hardcore bands. But since a certain individual parted ways with the kollective, I feel that he's trying his hand at hardcore once again under this new moniker in hopes that we wouldn't catch on.
fuck I'm still going to crime in stereo!
That show is done by jason! Who ever said it was a collective show is fucking dumb!
It's listed on Ginger Kid's page. What's the story Will?
http://www.myspace.com/gingerkidconcerts
who is doing the youth brigade show
I asked post fontaine and they emailed me back and said ginger kid is partnering with them on the strike anywhere show.
the listing is on their page but it is a post fontaine show which is jason farrel. i think it is just ont he ginger kid page as an upcoming show not as one of theirs. you check postfontaine.com for the listing there.
it list in the post fontaine shows! Dan!! http://www.myspace.com/thepostfontaine
its both post fontaine and ginger kid, their doing it together. I can forward you the email from post fontaine you would like
I saw it on the Post Fontaine site first. Then I saw it on the Ginger Kid site. I assumed that there was some sort of collaboration. Josh's e-mail confirms this.
While I've never had a problem with Jason's operation, I'm not going to advertise a Post Fontaine/Ginger Kid collaboration.
Will, you should ask Jason what's up. See if he'll explain why they would collaborate or if that is truly the case.
Ginger Kid is promoting the Youth Brigade show.
Dan I will ask margie what up cause she does strike anywhere!
I always liked show done by anyone that wasn't a hardcore kid! Then we never had to worry about losing money! Fuck now every show that is done by hardcore kids I don't even know who the fuck the bands are! Fuck there to many shitty bands!
Give these young bands a chance, Will. You might be surprised.
i do wish we got shows with bands i have heard of before, not saying anything against the bands that play the shows currently i just am not famillier with them. i feel like ever since i moved back a few years ago i dont know who to talk to about helping book shows or who is even organizing the shows i have attended.... i am down to do my part but i just need to know who to talk to or how i can help? i always am willing to design flyers or do what ever it takes but no one ever takes me up on my offer to help. in turn i end up feeling alienated in our scene. so if anyone needs help email me at andy@pangeaspeed.com
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